For the last five months, I have been an active user of Reddit. When I first got started with Reddit, I was really impressed by how much more democratic Reddit seemed to be than Digg and some of the other social media websites. As I talked to other Reddit users, I realized that I wasn’t alone in feeling this way.
As Brent Csutoras noted in a recent post, there have been a significant amount of people who have been leaving Digg and going to Reddit. The reason for these users moving to Reddit is because while Digg likes to say that they are all about their users, everyone knows that their moderators have a significant amount of control over the content that makes it to the front page (and their trend of having more control has continued to increase over time).
Unfortunately, it seems that my initial impression of Reddit may have been too good to be true. During my first three to four months on Reddit, I noticed that from time to time, my submissions would be deleted. Although the submissions didn’t break any Reddit TOS (such as being adult content), weren’t self-promotional and weren’t related to SEO (since the Reddit community is weary of any content related to search engine marketing), some of my posts seemed to be randomly deleted.
However, during the past few weeks, I have noticed that every one of my submissions has been getting deleted. The most surprising thing is that they were always deleted extremely quickly (as in ten seconds or less).
While this was quite puzzling at first, the cause of this issue has started to become more clear. As Brent explained in his post, the categories on Reddit are actually subreddits, and instead of being run by the Reddit staff, many of the most popular ones are run by a single Reddit user.
This means that these subreddits are fully controlled by a single user, and that user is allowed to play god with the submissions. While a Reddit staff member would probably have to justify why they deleted specific submissions, these users could delete submissions simply because they didn’t like another user. So, while people like to complain about Digg’s preferred treatment of power users, I think the issue of power users pales in comparison to this one.
Although this information explained why some of my links had been randomly deleted during my first three to four months on Reddit, it still didn’t explain the recent acivity. However, after doing some more investigating, I think I have found the answer, and this is where things get really interesting. If I am logged in and look at my recent submissions, I can see them all as shown by the screenshot below:
(notice that my submissions are a random mix of interesting content that isn’t self-promotional or related to SEO)
However, when I log out and visit my user page, this is what I see:
So, what does this mean? From what I can gather, this means that if a user like myself has been banned, Reddit doesn’t actually let you know that you have been banned. Instead, the site makes you think you are still an active user, but anything that you submit is autoburied. So, regardless of what you submit or how interesting it is, no one will ever have a chance to vote on it.
While I can understand why social media websites need to be able to ban users, I think it’s quite devious to trick banned users like myself into thinking that they still have an active account, when the truth is that they are nothing more than a ghost of Reddit!
While I know that I could create a new Reddit account and start over from scratch, I simply don’t know if I want to be part of a website that not only gives complete control over many of their main categories to single users (who don’t have to justify their decisions to anyone), but also feels that it is okay to trick their banned users into thinking that they are still members of the Reddit community.
I have been thinking about spending my social media time building a presence within the Mixx community (because it seems to be the most democratic option at this point), but before I do, I want to hear what you all think I should do:
“you were the one telling a woman who has a child with autism that she should get over it since her kid isn’t sick, he’s just retarded.”
Yeah, that’s how we roll at bN…
What I’m too chickenshit to admit is that if I was one of the Reddit power users, I’d be the most abusive person ever seen to moderate any site on the internets. I’m just boo hooing because Bannination doesn’t let me get away with hitleresque genocide of posts.
I gave up on Fark.com ages ago. Bannination.com is where it’s at these days. True community moderation for the masses and delightful personalities like the immortal Capt. Kirk. Come watch him arse-rape the helpless. It’s like 4chan but more low-brow.
BanniNation.com:Now with 50% less stalking!
No really we have some sociopaths on our site but besides that its not a bad place to hang out.
Man, that is super shady. Looks like I won’t submit to sub-reddits anymore.
You got kicked/banned for good reason, you’re unfairly promoting content that’s generally shit. No system is perfect but I believe that the masses have spoken so live with it.
T,
I don’t know any other nice way to say that this is not Reddit. You are welcome to disagree and we want you to be heard however, future comments with profanity will be deleted.
“No system is perfect but I believe that the masses have spoken so live with it.”
It’s actually not the masses that do the banning it’s a single admin and in some cases a single subreddit user.
I personally don’t care about living with it because I’m not really fond of the way Reddit allows single users to “play god” with submissions. The main point of this post was to expose the fact that reddit tricks users into thinking they have an active account when they have been actually been banned.
Since this article has been published I have many many friends that were banned from Reddit who are also well known well respected members of the Digg community. While their submission are deleted and accounts are banned on Reddit the same submissions do quite well on Digg.
Now I know not either system is perfect also but the individual user control and censorship going on over at Reddit is really over the top.
That is very clever of Reddit to do this! Craigslist does the same thing with submissions. You are ghosted but still your post show in your account.
If not digg or reddit, then would you go to stumble upon?
I used reddit at times and now I want to leave as well. I feel that it is pointless to use this service.
@Dede,
I’m already very active on StumbleUpon. StumbleUpon and Twitter are my two top platforms and I’m pretty sure they will always be right at the top of the list.
I have found so much amazing content from StumbleUpon and met some great people there as well. Twitter is also amazing. I’ve met so many awesome people and made many great friends from Twitter.
Really, the best option to actually go with is to STOP using reddit. They don’t want you, obviously. Tell all your SEO friends or we will gladly kick them out ourselves.
Em,
If you took the time to read the post you would see I was not using Reddit for SEO nor was I submitting SEO related posts. Nor did reddit have any way to judge me as an SEO at the time they banned me. I was simply participating on Reddit and attempting to participate in the community.
Most of the friends of mine that were banned are successful Digg users and not SEOs.
You tried to manipulate a social bookmarking site, and they found out and stopped you clogging the tubes. Big surprise.
Honestly, the way they choose to “ghost” people instead of outright blocking them I found to be an elegant and intelligent way to remove unwanted users.
The structure of Reddit is not precisely democratic, but it works and generally provides interesting content without a whole bunch of SEO guys wonking things up.
“but it works and generally provides interesting content without a whole bunch of SEO guys wonking things up.”
I never participated on Reddit as an SEO.
“The structure of Reddit is not precisely democratic”
Correct it’s exactly the opposite of democratic and completely manipulated by single users who are allowed to “play God” with individual sub reddit submissions
The ghost banning while you think is genius I’m sure has pissed off many many people who were legitimately attempting to participate on Reddit only to find out that they have been participating as a ghost.
Seriously uncool, really.
Let’s see. You spam and SEO work, and throw around a few random submissions on social bookmarking sites pretending that somehow covers your tracks. It probably helps you feel better.
You spam digg and manage to lose out there. That takes skill, really. Don’t get your (mostly imaginary) e-army all mounted for battle against reddit because you got caught.
Y’know, I’ve been an active reddit user for over a year now, and I can safely say, that while the front page has lost some quality content, the users are mostly intelligent and tight-knit as a community. I may have to scan down sometimes but often I get to see comments from someone who can definitely add insight to the relevant submission.
And the moderators do not have the imagined powers you mentioned. And the admins are constantly communicating with users about improving the site, even though it went open source months ago. You think that model is bad? And you think vain microblogging a la twitter is good? No you like it because you can game it; it doesn’t have a big mean ol’ system that weeds out zits like you.
Grow up and be a man, not this pompous man-child you are now. You can take your toys and leave. If it means you have to relinquish your imaginary throne as king of social/networking sites, then so be it. You’d gain at least some respect for that. But I’d bet you don’t give a damn about respect. You’re in it for the attention alone, aren’t you, you weasel?
Man Manson,
“it doesn’t have a big mean ol’ system that weeds out zits like you.”
“You’re in it for the attention alone, aren’t you, you weasel?”
Wow! creative name calling!
Thanks for commenting.
@average harsh reddit user
@A_redditor
@Sarah
Your comments have been deleted due to profanity and personal attacks.
I have said this before. You are welcome to disagree but if you can’t think of something to say more creative than profanity and name calling your comment will simply be deleted.
I find it very interesting the Redditors can’t comment here without the name calling and profanity. This only further makes my point that there is something seriously wrong going on over at Reddit especially if these are the same people running the sub Reddits. I can imagine them unleashing this anger on other users submissions that they don’t like.
Gman, I guess all my Wired and Ars Submissions *MUST* but spam! Those Reddit people got me! I am a spammer for Wired, Arstechnica (owned by Wired), Mashable, techcrunch, Discovery, NBC6, The Miami Herald, The Palm Beach Post, The Sun Sentinel and PC World. That’s the Ticket!
Or maybe I Watch my local New and I read great tech web site.
I have read through your comments and I am now in no doubt that reddit did the right thing when they banned you.
Good riddance!
Funny you delete comments here, what makes you so different than reddit? All bull but no substance, eh?
Your response is laughable. It’s quite clear to us that you were involved in SEO activities on reddit. That’s why your account was flagged. That’s why we don’t want you back. A normal user, had their account been flagged, would simply create a new one. It’s quite easy. But you couldn’t, because you need that account. If you don’t have it, you have to start all over. That’s why this decision is (apparently) so hard for you. You need to decide whether or not to build up a reputation on a different reddit account, or move on to another site, because reddit is too good at tagging people like you. Well I assure you that reddit’s system of tagging spammers (yes spammers) like yourself will only get better. If you create a new account it will be tagged. There’s no point in continuing on reddit, and no one wants you to anyway.
Canman makes a good point. You whine and moan about how subreddit admins can delete submissions, but why would your submission get deleted of there was no reasoning for it? Abusive subreddit admins are no more welcome that yourself. I don’t see why this can even be an argument for you. When you’re clearly exhibiting SEO behavior, nothing else should be expected. Your submissions will be deleted. Your account will be disabled.
I dearly hope you see how low and disrespectful your operation is. I think of it as the internet equivalent of panhandling. No thank you sir, I don’t need my windshield cleaned, and I certainly don’t need my search engine optimized. Please, for the sake of legitimate reddit users, go to mixx. Actually, don’t go to mixx. Stop this altogether. Get a real job. There are some people that would have noticed, when all their accounts got deleted, that this is not a good thing to be doing. But you…you decide to go on your blog, blindly supported by your SEO buddies, and whine about it.
And I suppose this is good. Your SEO buddies will say “Hey, maybe reddit isn’t the right place to do this.” And it’s true. Reddit will find you and stop you. Yes, of course, you’ll say to the end of the earth that you weren’t spamming your clients’ websites on reddit, but the simple truth is that the system caught you doing it. And even if the system did make a mistake, you shouldn’t have any qualms with creating a new account if you weren’t doing it.
So in conclusion, you clearly were doing it, and you’ll get caught if you try it again. Leave reddit…NOW!
You keep denying that your posts were SEO-related. But you never deny that they’re promotional spam, whether it’s for yourself or a client.
Sounds like you’re trying to play with words to hide the truth: You’re a spammer. Based on the evidence, most of us aren’t buying what you’re selling.
Well of course it is simple enough to create a new account the main point here is principle. It’s highly manipulated by individuals that reddit allows to pay God with submission.
I do appreciate you leaving your comment and cleaning up the profanity this time. =)
@bigyaz,
No not promotional. I submitted stuff to reddit that I found interesting, useful or entertaining. This is the essence of social media/user generated content.
@Canman,
I really don’t like ever deleting comments regardless of how opposing the opinions and viewpoints might be. I have even let a few of the ones with name calling and profanity stand just.
However It has been stated over and over to please mind your language. As long as you refrain from name calling and profanity the comments won’t be deleted.
This is much differnet from a Reddit sub reddit admin/user deleting a submission simply because they personally do not like the submission or users.
@Gerald – re your comment “It’s highly manipulated by individuals that reddit allows to pay God with submission.”
I think people have a misunderstanding about the way subreddits work. They are individual communities that were created by the moderator, and the moderator is give full range on how they want to shape that community. They can enforce rigid standards to keep submissions or comments on topic, or they can be completely lax.
It’s not so much as the moderators are given permission to “play god” with submissions, but they certainly are allowed to play god with their personal subreddits that they created. If you don’t agree with a moderators behavior, submit to a different subreddit or create your own.
2Gerald Weber and others who are dissatisfied with the existing online communities(Digg, Reddit, Mixx, etc.)
Why don’t you give a try to infomate.org? It’s a non-commercial fully democratic online community. It works through a mixture of direct and representative democratic processes.
The friends system, community tagging and elected moderators(severely limited in power and their actions can be “overturned” by the community) ensure that there is little mob mentality on the site.
P.S. I’ll hang around here in case you’ve got questions.
You are a proven spammer and Reddit is much better off without you. I know you will moderate this comment, but I hope you will at least have read it. You will fail at demonizing Reddit just like you failed to play the spam game.
infomate team,
Thanks for the info. I’ll certainly check it out.
Sea Man,
Not moderating your comment.
I was actually enjoying the Reddit community for the first 5 months. The problem is again partly the fact that sub Reddit admin that over see some of the main categories can simply delete submission simply because they personally do not like the submission or that user.
Reddits definition of spam is largely subjective and there is mostly individual personal opinion (and emotion) that goes into determining if something is considered spam. You don’t like a couple submission and BAM that makes them spam.
It really is unfortunate because there are some aspects of Reddit that are quite nice.
My approach to Reddit was the same as all other social media platforms I participate in. I submit content that I think is either useful, interesting, or entertaining and that I think other may also enjoy.
Of course people are not always going to agree and my understanding is, that is why there is a voting system but Reddit users go overboard and call it spam simply because dislike a particular submission or user and then they go on the personal attack, and then a mad Witch hunt ensues follow by well what seems to have been some recent MASS ghost banning of accounts.
I want to personally thank everyone that took the time to comment on this
RECORD TRAFFIC SEJ post!
We sincerely appreciate and value your opinions and insights. :-)
Hey Gerald,
I wanted to comment on your recent Reddit article, but you had turned off comments already for some reason. Hopefully you will get this in a timely fashion.
It seems like you feel that subreddits are often moderated by one single user, similar to a Digg power user. This, in fact, is rarely the case, and thus I felt the need to correct your misconception. Moderators are extremely understanding and helpful, and do not want to block people unless it’s blindingly obvious that a particular user is a bot, a SEO, etc., and they are also degrading the content of a particular subreddit.
If you’re still reading at this point, you should check this series of screenshots out: http://www.imgur.com/ZSckq
I picked three popular subreddits to make a point: there is more than one moderator in each of those. There is more than two as well. In fact, in just those three subreddits, they range from four to twelve moderators, and that’s not including the admins, which are hidden to users, and have more “moderating power” than the moderators do.
I’m not sure why you couldn’t have just made a new account to look at this yourself, or if you are just bitter after having been found out, but you should try to do some research before you go and write an article about “something devious” going on at Reddit.
If you feel the need to respond to me, create a new user name and post a well-worded, legitimate self response that won’t get voted down immediately. If you do so, you’ll undoubtedly get plenty of trolls, flamers and general idiots, but you’ll be sure to get some good discussion going on the topic if you phrase it right and present both sides of the argument.
If Reddit is no longer your cup of tea, go for Mixx. I know nothing about it, but I’m sure it’s much, much better than Reddit.
Good luck in your internet travels