SEO

8 Things We Learned About Google PageRank

Yesterday, Google lowered the Toolbar PageRank of many sites in many different online verticals, in what may be a permanent or temporary message to sites about selling links.

Google also lowered the Toolbar PageRank of many sites which do not sell links, so the link argument may not even be relevant. Until Google comes out with a statement on the changes in PageRank, we may be beating this argument into the ground. Especially since blog networks and major media sites were also included in the update, which seems to be hand delivered from the Google gods.

However, there has been a lot of coverage about Google PageRank over the last day, and if anything, the public is becoming more educated on the separation between Google Toolbar’s PageRank and how Google ranks a site.

Search Engine Journal is now a PageRank 4 or a PageRank 6, depending on what datacenter your toolbar is working off of. We were PageRank 7 for several years and have not, in my opinion, done much to offset this PageRank.

We have hundreds of thousands of incoming links and have never purchased a link to this site.

Here are 8 different notes about the Google PageRank ‘update’ (this could be a PageRank hiccup) from yesterday”

1. PageRank is not an indicator of Google traffic or Google Rankings.

Since May 2007, our Google search referral traffic has doubled and now stands at 45% to 50% of our incoming daily traffic. Search Engine Roundtable reports similar findings.

In fact, Search Engine Journal’s traffic from Google Search has shown a sharp increase over the past month, possibly due to some changes we have implemented (or the popularity of the subjects we cover).

2. Firing a PageRank Warning Shot

Google is not the Internet, but is all powerful. A drop in Google Toolbar page rating system leads to advertisers pulling out of sites, link deals being broken, widespread fear of paid links hurting site ranking and traffic.

In my opinion, by flipping the switch on changing the PageRank of some sites, Google is trying to send a message that they have the power to turn this search marketing industry over on its head. But they have not issued a rankings change.

3. Target the Authorities, But Not the Wrong Doers

Does lowering Search Engine Journal’s PageRank to a 4 stop a multi-million dollar industry from shutting down? No.

Do we deserve to be publicly humiliated or targeted by Google for having a couple of links in our ad section? No.

Are we still an authority site? Yes, of course.

Google targeted the PageRank of high profile sites in what is becoming a trickle down effect. ‘Engadget got hit, I better stop before I get hit too.” Yeah, but hit for what?

4. PageRank stands for PR, or Public Relations

I’ll let these Forbes quotes from Rand and Barry speak for themselves.

“The bottom line is that people are able to manipulate Google’s rankings by buying links, and Google has to do something about that,” he said. “Today, they sent a huge statement to some of the most popular blogs on the Internet, and particularly those in the search industry.”

Search engine marketer and blogger Rand Fishkin agrees that the pagerank shift was likely meant to send a message to link buyers and sellers. “Google has said in many conferences that this number isn’t accurate, that it’s a rough signal but shouldn’t make any determination about a site,” says Fishkin. “This is meant to be a more public way of saying,’we know what you’re up to.'”

5. NoFollow is a Sign of No Trust, We Trust Our Sponsors

Barry Schwartz says it best:

I trust my sponsors, I value their sponsorships and I couldn’t do what I do without their financial support. Some sponsors can’t afford huge sponsorships, so they sponsor in their ways. It is what enables this site and many other sites to function and operate on a daily basis. I turn down sponsors all the time because they are simply not relevant or useful to my reader. I hand select them and for them to be on my site, means I trust them. Why nofollow someone you trust and want to thank? Is that a slap in their face? Will I have to and will they continue to sponsor? Time will tell.

6. PageRank is not a Marketing Metric

If anything, yesterday’s PageRank change helped remind us that PageRank, like Alexa and other questionable ratings services, is not a pricing or marketing metric. A link from a PageRank 7 site is not going to have more vale than a link from a PageRank 3 site. The value is in the context of each site, the anchor text and other values. Don’t buy links based on PageRank, and don’t sell links based on PageRank. Come on, that’s just so 2002!

Doug Heil did a great job of discussing his view on this in our Search Engine Journal Comments area:

I’m don’t understand why Google displays the bar anymore. It’s purpose was to get good public relations a long time ago. It’s not needed now. It only serves “text link brokers” and those who sell pagerank text links. In other words, it’s totally useless. It actually always has been totally useless as a “rank” indicator.

Why the SEO industry has made a big deal of the green bar all these years is something I’ve never been able to understand. Oh sure; Google may have created the metric, but it’s the SEO industry who has been their very own worse culprit in spreading the BS and falsehoods about the bar.

7. It’s Time for a Better System than PageRank

SEOBook’s Aaron Wall speaks up:

Since Google is demoting PageRank’s viability as a site’s global authority score perhaps this is a time for Yahoo to bring back WebRank, or Ask to launch something like CommunityRank. The Google-webmaster relationship is fraying. This presents an opportunity for whoever wants to take it.

8. Lowered PageRank Leads to More Quality Links

Search Engine Journal was linked to yesterday from Google Blogoscoped, SEOmoz, Forbes.com, Search Engine Watch, Techmeme and Sphinn among other quality and authority sites because people’s toolbars changed around the world. Great link bait! Thanks Google icon smile 8 Things We Learned About Google PageRank

What have you learned about Google PageRank in the past 24 hours? Please feel free to share below.

Screen Shot 2014 04 15 at 7.21.12 AM 8 Things We Learned About Google PageRank
Loren Baker is the Founder of SEJ, an Advisor at Alpha Brand Media and runs Foundation Digital, a digital marketing strategy & development agency.
Screen Shot 2014 04 15 at 7.21.12 AM 8 Things We Learned About Google PageRank

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352 thoughts on “8 Things We Learned About Google PageRank

  1. “In fact, Search Engine Journal’s traffic from Google Search has shown a sharp increase over the past month due to some changes we have implemented. ”

    I hope you’re not making the classic assumed-cause-and-effect mistake so many people in the SEO industry indulge in. Just because you made changes doesn’t mean those changes were the reason you saw improvement.

    I look forward to seeing how you justify the conculsion that these specific changes had any effect at all.

  2. Michael, let’s get back to this argument at a different time; Changes made to sites and do have an effect on their search rankings.

    Anyway, I’ve edited that statement out because I don’t want it to take away from the post. I’ll look into our traffic and make a post about testing use of NoFollow vs DoFollow and other changes.

    Then, at the time of publishing Michael, give you more statements to rip apart :)

  3. This is not a knock at your article, because it is very good. I just think it is really funny how a lot of sites will make a whole blog post about how their page rank improved and then at the same time say it is irrelevant when that same page rank falls. It boggles the mind. My opinion and it is only an opinion is if page rank does not matter them why is the whole blogosphere checking their page rank to see where they stand?

    Just a thought!

  4. A drop in PR with no impact on traffic and rankings, is clearly meant to delegitimize PR as a metric so that it can no longer be used to establish basis for buying and selling links.

    Imagine the fallout if Google just got rid of PR. People would go nuts. But if they can get industry support behind the idea that it is no longer a meaningful metric they can accomplish the same goal without looking like they are trying hide something or taking something away.

  5. PR doesn’t have anything to do with traffic that’s true. I have a blog that receives around 60 daily visits and another one that receives nearly 2000 daily visits per day and they are both PR4.

    On my most popular blog Google accounts for 90% of all traffic.

  6. Hmm, I’ve read several articles about this, but this is the first that points in the direction of the SEO industry. Is it possible Google paid special attention to those blogs just because they know the word will get out quickly? Trying to guess what Google is doing to the internet makes me feel small for some reason.

  7. in general, I have found that legit sites usually buy high ranked links while splogs and spammers feast off of adwords

    is my observation inaccurate anyone?

  8. “Google is not the Internet, but is all powerful. A drop in Google Toolbar page rating system leads to advertisers pulling out of sites, link deals being broken, widespread fear of paid links hurting site ranking and traffic.”

    That pretty much sums the whole shooting match up.

    But my feeling is, Google are running scared from social media.

    Thing about it —while ever people like you & me are finding stuff on Digg, StumbleUpon, Reddit and del.icio.us, we’re not searching for stuff on Google — and that attacks at the very heart of Google’s revenues…

  9. Wayne,

    Google is so powerful where big companies had to change their business models to catch up with them. Yes, many people are finding stuff on social media but Google hasn’t seen the impact of that yet and will not see an impact on their business any time soon.

    Still confuses me why Google targeted these sites. My only guess is this is going to be a temporary drop until advertisers who bought links for the sole purpose of passing PR realize it is not going to work anymore and leave.

  10. Hi Tariq, these guys are the ones doing pretty well from social media.

    Most of the comments I’ve read have been about Google ‘sending out a message’ to link buyers. Well maybe there’s another message.

    For the most part, it’s certainly not link buying practices, or the long shot idea of over-doing the internal linking structure. Maybe it’s their relationship with some media house?

    I just think Google don’t get social media so badly, those beneficiaries of social media are prime targets, as Aaron Wall pointed out a few weeks ago.

    He highlighted how wildly successful linkbait articles have been either hand-edited down or removed completely.

    Just how do Google monetize something they’re not at the centre of?

  11. If a site is *suspected* of selling links, and that site goes gray in toolbar PR, and then said site loses suspected outlinks, what has Google learned?

    It’s not completely a matter of selling links, but rather valuing links based on PR. If links appear and disappear based on PR value, they are targets for elimination.

    Ignore the PR value.

  12. “In fact, Search Engine Journal’s traffic from Google Search has shown a sharp increase over the past month due to some changes we have implemented. ”

    I assume this means adding nofollow to comments. Probably not a bad move as google seems to really hate comment links.

    It’s quite possible that if you leave on nofollow, in 6 months your page rank will increase.

    A better scenario would be for google to remove the little green bar permanenty.

  13. Google is so powerful where big companies had to change their business models to catch up with them. Yes, many people are finding stuff on social media but Google hasn’t seen the impact of that yet and will not see an impact on their business any time soon.

  14. Google needs to learn a lesson that they are nothing without webmasters and bloggers. They’ve already alienated hundreds of thousands of webmasters be falsely banning them from Adsense, and it has been said, why can’t they just audit invalid clicks like Adbrite or PPC program instead of banning and keeping earnings. Now this whole “witch hunt” for paid links is just going to turn more webmasters against them.

    My suggestion to webmasters is if you are dissatisfied with Google’s unjust persecution, simply remove Adsense from your sites and use a better search engine like Teoma. If only the top 100 bloggers turned their backs on Google, it would send a ripple effect and might open the door for new opportunities for everyone.

  15. The most important thing I learned was…

    If Page Rang goes up… It’s a very important measure of a websites worth and proof of the hard work that was done to achieve the status symbol. Woo-Hoo! – My PageRank just went up!

    If it goes down, it’s a worthless measurement and has nothing to do with reality. Sour grapes!

    Does anyone ever report… “BTW – My PageRank just went up from 4 to 7 today but it’s nothing worth celebrating because PageRank is a totally worthless measurement”

    No way! – That’s Crazy talk!

    Honestly… The Google FUD campaign is getting to me. I don’t know what to think.

  16. Google is probably just sending a message to sites that fit the profile.

    Sites that fit the profile get a PR drop and won’t be able to trade in links as easily. Google doesn’t seem to be going after traffic, just visible PageRank.

  17. Loren, when you mentioned NoFollow/DoFollow, it reminded me that at one point you declared SEJ a ‘DoFollow’ blog. However, my SEO for Firefox plugin shows all the links in the comment thread as NoFollow.

    When did you reverse that policy?

  18. Google is acting like Uncle Sam these days. I wrote an article about the possible backlash few months back.
    Now that links are being devalued, I am wondering how would big SEO guys generate thousands of organic links for hundreds of websites! It has become very difficult indeed.
    Hopefully, it is just a warning and temporary.

  19. Why are we still talking about PR? Does it still hold that much sway over what we do to rank our sites? I have sites that rank in the top 5 SERPs for moderatlly competive keywords that have no PR at all. Most of the links that come to these sites have no PR or very low PR. When i go out and look for links i don’t use PR in the check list. I look for Quality Content on the site and Relevance. Why? becasuse of this post. Google can change the PR at anytime and then what are those PR 8 links worth. Link to good relevent sites and you will be much better off in the long run. Just my thoughs on this.

  20. For years every one (including those who got their PR lowered) blogged on and on about how PR does not matter. Countless blog articles advising noobs to quick worrying about PR and start building good sites.

    It is funny to see the tides change when the PR changes hit closer to home. Suddenly PR is important again.

  21. We are tired of the J3w search engines….. we are tired of J3w banks……we are tired of J3w newsmedia……we are tired of J3w datacenters……. all built with fiat currency fraud…….. nobody can fool all the people all the time.

    Time for gentile redeemable currency, time for gentile banks, time for gentile newsmedia, time for gentile search engine.

  22. I guess there is lot more to learn…
    I started two of my blogs few months back and
    My one blog got PR 4
    and another got PR 3
    For the time being I am happy. :)

  23. I agree with those that say Google’s PageRank is now irrelevant. As good as Google is, they did create a monster when they came out with the PR toolbar…

    Three or four years ago, it’s true that a PR 7 or 8 site would outrank a PR 3 or 4 site, but not anymore. Today we are seeing more evidence of the contrary.

    Instead of focusing so much on PR, webmasters should focus more on quality and fresh content. Isn’t this what creating a great site is all about in the first place?

  24. Many had been said about the recent Google page rank onslaught to many sites, particularly the BIG players in the blog industry.

    The question is why? Is it simply because of paid links?

    If that were to be so, then many directories including the big directory boys like business.com, yahoo, BOTWS, Entireweb,Mirago and countless others should be hit too. In fact most directory industry we know are heavily involved in paid links.

    Yep, you guess right… this industries are NOT hit by Google. Why?

    In my opinion, it is paid links that are irelevant to your industry that will be hit. Taking the blog industry for example, I would categorize it as industry-unrelated paid links and that is why its being heavily hit.

    While the directory industry, although Google I am certain is aware about their paid links whether its express inclusion, featured listing or sponsor listing… it is considered as relevant and industry-related links. Directories need to advertise links or insert new links to be a directory while the blogging industry don’t!

    All being said and done, it is best to wait for Google official statement. However, this recent event should also open new perspective for the search marketing industry:

    – New optimization techniques
    – Industry-related paid links
    -Back to basic – Quality contents equal links. Quality links equal traffic
    – New marketing strategies so as not to be too dependent on search engines for site traffic

    Frederrick Abrugart

  25. I have noticed that lower page rank sites get crawled fully but the deeper pages(even after having unique content) goes into supplemental results. So page rank does matter with regards to crawling. A high page rank site pages dont go into supplemental results.

  26. I have noticed that lower page rank sites get crawled fully but the deeper pages(even after having unique content) goes into supplemental results. So page rank does matter with regards to crawling. A high page rank site pages dont go into supplemental results. Thats the difference .

  27. I agree PR can speed up crawling, especially of deeper pages. However I’d like to see some facts to back up the claim that low PR means you’re moved into the supplemental index regardless of content uniqueness. I’ve been in the supps but PR hasn’t made any difference with higher PR pages being in and pages on brand new PR0 sites staying in the main index.

  28. “PageRank is not a Marketing Metric”

    Just about the first thing I’m asked in relation to web marketing when I meet a client for the first time is: but what PageRank will you be able to get for our website?

    So regardless of the lack of marketing merit, the perception is that PageRank very much is a metric, whether we like it or not…

  29. Page rank seems to me to bring in the corporate, simon says mentality to my home office. I just realized that. True though, as someone already stated, page rank seems to be the bargining chip for links and ads, unfortunate though. Seems we humans just have to have a way to compare and name value then give someone the authority to standardize the value. jcrawford

  30. I don’t pay for any links or ads to bring traffic to our site – it is 100% search engine traffic. When our PR dropped a point my first concern was that many of our first page listings would be affected, but they don’t seem to have moved so this time around PR wasn’t a factor.

    I am assuming our drop in Google Page Rank is due to the drop of PR of many of the sites that link to us – like a knock-on effect. I certainly hope so, but will only know when some kind of statement is forthcoming from Google.

    It just goes to show how so many businesses are in the grip of the search engine giants – and how even small movements can be beyond significant to people’s livelihood.

  31. I dont understand what google is doing?
    Over years they told us build Linkechanges and now we get hurt for this?
    I think google will do this for there own ad words campagne.

  32. As ‘de facto’ monopolist of the Internet marketing segment Google’s move to penalize paid links can only be characterized as hypocritical. After all, their entire (borrowed) business model is based on selling links to the highest bidders. To shut down alternative sources to drive traffic is simply a move to eliminate competition and to force more web site owners to buy into AdWords. If they wanted to eliminate junk from their SERPs they should start in their own backyard: the majority of spam site owners live of Google AdSense revenue. – But of course it is somewhat “difficult” for a company that makes 50% of their revenue from these sites to be to critical.

  33. Hi Loren,
    I have a question.
    I remember there wasn’t nofollow on you blog. And that time you had a great PR. So what’s the use of it for the blogs like yours. I think you should remove it. Don’t you think so?

  34. @TechBlog : I’ve been playing with the NoFollow/DoFollow toggle and so far, there seems to be higher ranking on Google and more traffic for this site from Google when I use NoFollow in the blog comments.

    I’m still testing it, so the final word isn’t out yet. Thanks for your input!

  35. Page rank simply measures the global link popularity. It has nothing to do with ranking positions on SERP but unfortunately people consider it as a marketing matrix and associate it with the popularity of a website.

  36. Now there is a Question!
    If i have no No-follows do i get the hand from google .
    If i have a no-follow on some of my links does google think im bowing to them and give me some sort of credit? That could be an interesting test.

  37. I offer a little bit of a different approach to the recent changes on Google PageRank. First off, we all know that what we see with PR is not any true indication of how G views a site.

    However, with the huge boom in websites, perhaps the tool was getting diluted and it was time to downgrade sites across the board. After all in most cases, most sites went down in PR. Perhaps there was a cutoff of link value and the ones that were not meeting a certain criteion (ex most sites!) got knocked down 1 or 2 PR points.

    Just a though. Either way I find it comical how reactive everyone seems to be to what has developed into nothing more then a tool of entertainment in the SEM world.

  38. The visible google page rank is a misleading short cut which we all use but which we shouldn’t. It’s a bad habit even glancing at that yellow bar.

    I’ve said as much myself. But recently, I’ve developed a new view starting with the fact that page rank has recently been used by google is a novel way.

    google PR number is a useful measure of what it measures.

    The fact is that I’ve seen a very strong correlation over the last four years between my viewable page rank and my position in the search engines.

  39. I agree with the opinion that PageRank has to be replaced with something that makes more sense .. what if my site is very good but still new and nobody is linking to it yet? PageRank suggests that if your site is good people will link to it, ok, this is very nice, but don’t they have to find it first?! And how will they find it if it doesn’t appear in the search results, and this is regardless of how good or relevant the contents is. People keep saying all the time that you have to have good contents to get traffic to your site, while I agree to that, I believe it’s just not enough, mo matter how good or relevant your content is, it’s worthless without some SEO.

  40. I have spent the entire evening researching what PR actually represents. I guess I have issues with it because my own site after over a month has failed to achieve any kind of score but at the same time is getting some nice search engine placements. So I started to look around to find out what it meant. I understood that the better you are ranked the more popular you are. Generally being popular requires good content that people choose to link to the more important the people linking ‘ie thier own page rank’ the more popular your site will be. Kind of like a social marker of the ‘in crowd’.

    Well I guess I am and may alway remain a zero on this score table which in the end I just resign myself to believing I will never be one of the cool kids but I’m still okay with myself.

  41. Google is losing the support from webmasters. We might not be able to do much to the Giant but if other search engines provide a better platform for us, why not migrate? Over the years, Google has been acting more and more like a Dominator dictating what we should do and what we should not. Google is not everything, start your backup plan guys. It is time to prepare for the worse, should a bullet start flying to you for no good reason.

  42. No matter what you say about page rank. The bottom line is that, it is still considered as an indicator of quality and high traffic on a website by non-SEOs like my boss :(

  43. I dont know if anybody is looking the link to the HTML4SEO report I dropped a few posts above, but if you believe that Toolbar PR is meaningless GO CLICK IT NOW.

    As Google PR Contrarian stated and we have definitely seen, the report shows quite clearly that there IS still a strong correlation between PR (yes TOOLBAR PR) and serps performance.

    the only exception to this seems to be on the Google penalty PR drops, which then later on turn out to be *faked* anyway, hence the reason the sites affected experienced no traffic drops, as otherwise a PR reduction from PR6 to PR2 would surely cause..

  44. I don’t pay for any links or ads to bring traffic to our site – it is 100% search engine traffic. I prefer the great method of organic seo, my sites rank just as well as some sites that buy all there links & so on.

  45. It became worthless to alot of people after there really long pr update one before last. The fact that 4 websites/companies they own lost in page rank & then was changed back up to there original + some showed others that its pointless if they can pick & choose. On a plus point alot of link sellers would agree with you that page rank is important as they can make $$$$ out of it.

  46. Google is obviously trying to eliminate the number of websites selling links and trying to reduce the incentive for people to promote and build web directories. With each update that comes and goes it seems the higher pagerank values become harder and harder to achieve and many directories such as BigWebLinks.com lose significant PR. Sites that offer actual value to visitors and web searchers (and do proper SEO) seem to benefit the most from these pagerank updates.

  47. Page rank can keep you awake at night when it should not, rankings and traffic are what is important. Page rank also belongs as an option in webmaster tools!

  48. It’s way past time that they just drop page rank, what does it do exactly except waste your time? Back in the day PR never existed, it makes you a target.

  49. I believe that Google is way back of time in dropping Page Rank. PR now is not about Public Relation anymore but as a form of business tactics.

  50. In resonse to SEO Web Design comment that “Google is losing the support from webmasters” I’d have to say I agree but so what?

    Google’s influence is way beyond our realm of influence. Google is a major multi-national corporate and the company’s primary focus is on the end user – all of the millions of them. And regardless of whether or not there’s a better search engine out there (and there well may be) Google has the market share. That’s not to say it will always be dominant and there’s no use looking around but until another search engine is able to break out of the webmaster/techy market into the larger popular user market Google will continue to be the one we have to deal with.

  51. We agree with point 1 – PageRank is not an indicator of Google traffic or Google Ranking.

    I had a PR4 site that was getting 10 times the traffic of another PR7 site I was working on — 80% of all traffic from Google. PR is not a reliable indicator by itself.

  52. “Page Rank is not an indicator of Google traffic or Google Rankings”. This is really a good fact as each and every post or article or content present on the site should be for the visitor’s and not for the Search Engines.

    This is the criteria on which every one should work on for getting automatic back links and traffic and after building the original and unique content with some optimization will really make and earn a lot for the website.

  53. We only have a PR of 2 but our site is 1st on Google for the search “coach hire”

    I have seen other competitor sites who have a PR of 4 and still cannot get the ranking we have.

    So, I agree, PR isn’t really the one for me.

  54. I didn’t experience any fall in PageRank around the time of the October PR update by Google, but in late February 2008 I have seen many sites, including my own SEO company site experienced a drop in PageRank. I understand paid links can cause a site’s PR to fall but I can confirm that no inbound links have been purchased and no outbound links have been sold.
    In all the years I’ve been engaged in SEO work this is the first time I’ve ever taken a hit in PageRank.
    What other explanations are there for a drop in PR?

  55. The sooner Google makes pagerank invisible to webmasters – the quicker we can all go back to work and stop worrying about it.
    Having it visible in the first place was probably stupid… but gave us all something to talk about :-)

    NB: Google shares have dropped by $80Billion in the past 4 months. :-)

    regards.

  56. RE: Google stock price..

    Google shares are currently at $ 428 – setting new 52 week lows as I type! – freefall?? OUCH!

    (It’s a long way back to those $747 shares)

    regards….

  57. Ive only been online for a couple years. Just As I caught the drift of pagerank I started to hear it was no longer of value. Makes no different I guess. It certainly seems to have no bearing in which site appear first in the serps, but I’m not complaining. My highest pr ranks are 4 and 5.

  58. Loren,

    Your excellent article tells us all to ignore the “little green bar” on the toolbar. That said, if you were to go to DP or site point there are still lots of webmasters selling “PR”? Do you think the practice is going to die in the next few months?

    Secondly, Any verdict out on your rel=no follow experiment – has no follow made your search rankings higher as you mentioned earlier? I have a blog which is Do follow & i may make changes depending on your experiment!

    Thanks,
    Abhishek Arora

  59. lately i have realized that PR isn’t important anymore. It’s just somewhat of a bragging tool unless you’re selling links. If you’re not selling links, it’s barely something to look at when buying or maybe selling a website. Traffic and SERPS matter the most IMO and they’re the ones that bring in the real money =P

  60. What an interesting set of comments. I come to the conclusion that only Google really knows how it works. I do think the more Google throws it’s weight around the more likely we are to see the emergence of alternatives. But, for now, we suck it up!

  61. still very much convinced that PR plays a big part in rankings. higher PR than your competitors and equivalent content puts you on top.

    We see this a lot where we’ve taken on a poorly performing site with equal or stonger PR than their competitors, sort the site out and they’re on top. this is not so when their competitors have better PR and it takes longer to catch them

    PR means less than it used to and tbPR is unreliabable to say the least but denying it matters is a step too far IMO

  62. Can anyone tell me how long it will take before my site gets a PageRank and appears well on Google. I have just taken over a Guest House in Grasmere and I have a brand new domain and the site only went live yesterday. I have started building some directory links, but I am wanting to know roughly how long it will take before the site is generating bookings?

  63. I was in the same predicament and was advised that with a few links and an optimised homepage I would get a PR in the next update but then it depends on what phrases you are wanting to go for as to when you start to see bookings.

  64. I don’t think PageRank makes a difference on your search engine rankings. It’s just an indication of what Google thinks of your site, and not where it will be ranked. There are many sites that rank in the first page of Google for a competitive term, with PR of 2 or lower.

  65. @trademark registration and anyone thinking it doesnt matter? ..so say had a website with a PR3, from your one and only link in, one PR7 link from a friend’s site. ..then you fell out, and they pulled the link.

    would the inevitable loss of PR matter then? would you retain your current rankings?

  66. I think you would be able to retain the current rankings and would no loss of PR matter as long as you have a good optimization… Your site will be ok for sure.

  67. I think Google are right to penalise like buying sites, this after all helps the webmasters who are trying to optimise there sites without blatantly throwing a load of money at it.

  68. What an interesting set of comments. I come to the conclusion that only Google really knows how it works. I do think the more Google throws it’s weight around the more likely we are to see the emergence of alternatives. But, for now, we are all just left up in the air!

  69. Great article my friend.

    Is there a way to find out when the new toolbar PR updates?

    Anyhoo, I think the most worrying thing is how Google decides if a site is BUYING links.

    I’m sure that algorythm could be exploited.

  70. In the last few days I noticed something weird on my blogs and websites. A lot of the page ranks had increased last night. Then when I checked this morning, they were back to normal. Then again tonight, I noticed that the higher page ranks were showing. For example my http://www.retirement-quotes.com home page had a PR of 3 for quite some time, a PR of 4 last night, a PR of 3 this moring, and a PR of 4 again tonigh. The same happened with one of my Squidoo webpages going from no PR to 3 last night, back to no PR this morning, and a PR of 3 again tonight.
    Ernie
    Zelinski

    Author of: How to Retire Happy, Wild, and Free.
    and
    The Joy of Not Working

  71. I think the whole thing is getting crazy! Why don’t Google just come out and say what it is that is on their minds. This way we all can get on the same page together and work to a positive end result!

  72. I think Google are right to penalise like buying sites, this after all helps the webmasters who are trying to optimise there sites without blatantly throwing a load of money at it. ??

  73. It’s just crazy the way people think PR gives you better ranking. It’s just a way of Google saying “the site is well linked” ???

  74. “Page Rank is not an indicator of Google traffic or Google Rankings”. This is really a good fact as each and every post or article or content present on the site should be for the visitor’s and not for the Search Engines.

  75. It’s getting to the point where I wish there was no PageRank system as it doesn’t appear to make much difference to a site’s positioning, but the process of link building is getting much more difficult thanks to Google removing the PR off so many links and directory pages.

  76. Google is a great and powerful search Engine. However some people make basic mistakes while designing their web site and as a result never make it to the top. Even if they work hard on it Or may be waste a lot of money on useless tools and services. Google search Engine give the right link regarding your topic.

    http://www.jackrussellsavvy.com

  77. That’s all we need, Google making yet more changes to its algorithm. My site keeps taking a hit in the organic listings even though I’ve got plenty of inbound links to justify a page one listing.

  78. I’m still new to all this. My blog is a year old. I’ve watch everything on my site that I know how to watch. Tweaked, tested, changed, etc., as an experiment the first year.

    I had PR2 until April 30th. It went up to PR3 and it was like somebody removed a barrier and traffic started flowing significantly.

    On my blog anniversary July 15th organic traffic went dead and still is. Is it something I said? (Lol)

    This happened in February this year as well. Traffic just disappeared for a few weeks.

    Google is playing with fire. Users are ignoring adSense on blogs. Bloggers are ignoring AdSense seeking other sources of revenue. It is really a no win for small traffic blogs.

    But no one is going to be controlled that way for long. They are really messing around with Blogger.com’s ability to keep publishers. It’s like watching the fall of Rome.

  79. I personally think PR is not as important as it was. Google seems to be steering down a lexical keywords / page keyword density route (back to the old days of excite! in 96). Link text is still as important as ever, both internal and external. Whatever, Google is doing these days they seem to be purposefully leaving themselves open to increased manipulation by SEO professionals and weakening the index as a whole. I mean bulk cross-linking and lexical keywords stuffing in titles, they should have an algorithm to kick that stuff out, shouldn’t they? but I plead guilty on all counts;)

  80. For anyone interested, in the last day or two, Google updated the
    P.R. of Websites and assocated Webpages, which Google tends to do
    every two or three months. I noticed that The Retirement
    Jobs
    Webpage on my The Real Success Resource Center Website
    stayed at a P.R. 3 but the Home Page fell to a P.R. 2. Similarly,
    my Retirement
    Speeches
    Café webpage fell from a P.R. of 4 to a 3.

    My Squidoo Webpage The
    Joy of Not Being Married
    jumped from not being ranked (worse
    than zero when no white at all in the bar) to a P.R. of 2.

    Interestingly, my Ernie
    Zelinski
    ‘s Author page on Morgan James Publishing now has
    a PR of 2 while the Main Morgan James Website Home Page still is not
    even ranked – less than zero in other words.

    I have no idea why these things happen, however.

    If you check your webpages, you may notice similar changes and oddities.

    Ernie Zelinski
    Author of: How
    to Retire Happy, Wild, and Free
    .
    (Over 95,000 copies Sold and Published in 7 Foreign Languages)

  81. Does anyone know the answer to this–Whenever Google adjusts page rank my traffic falls off to a crawl. I’ve heard page rank does not affect traffic. I know this is an error. I’ve watched it happen twice.

  82. I didn’t experience any fall in PageRank around the time of the October PR update by Google, but in late February 2008 I have seen many sites, including my own SEO company site experienced a drop in PageRank. I understand paid links can cause a site’s PR to fall but I can confirm that no inbound links have been purchased and no outbound links have been sold.
    In all the years I’ve been engaged in SEO work this is the first time I’ve ever taken a hit in PageRank.
    What other explanations are there for a drop in PR? http://names-n-brands.com/

  83. I really don’t think the page rank carries as much weight as it used to. You see sites with lower page rank all the time on page 1 of Google and higher ranked sites further back. Higher traffic sites aren’t always on the front page of Google.

  84. Google Page rank counts but not near as much as content. As the Internet
    experts all say, “Content is King.”

    Unfortunately, when most people see successful individuals make a
    system like the Internet work, but they themselves don’t understand,
    they make up stories. Stories abound about how successful individuals
    are lucky, how they have gotten all the breaks in life, and how they
    have to be dishonest to make it in this world. Most of these stories
    are either untrue or out-and-out lies.

    It turns out that becoming an Internet success is a lot simpler than
    that. Success, after all, is based on commitment, perseverance, and
    common sense. Above all, this is the most important secret to getting
    started on an Internet business: Do it badly — but at least do it!!
    That is exactly what I am doing this week with the launch of three
    new websites for a client:

    The Money Cafe
    The Fun at Work Cafe
    Love a Recession

    Do as my client is doing on the Internet and as mhy client has done
    in the past with self-publishing which has led to his books being
    published in 20 languages and 27 different countries. Jump into it
    full force and correct course when necessary. You will have to because
    Google keeps changing the rules of the game.

  85. One more comment that I would like to add regarding Page Rank. Apparently Google penalizes for duplicate content which will make page rank go down. Yet while working for my client on his new websites The Retirement Cafe and The Friendship Cafe I found that Google gives a page rank of 4 on each of his two websites (the highest of any webpages on the two websites) for his free e-book The 237 Best Things Ever Said about Retirement which is boogling because he was penalized (a drop from the number 2 spot overall on Google to somewhere around number 175) along with a page rank drop from 4 to 3 on another website for 2 months for duplicate content until the duplicate content was removed on the other websites on which it appeared.

    Dave Erhard
    Vancouver

  86. Does the PageRank really reflect the site? Could we not have it so that the viewers of a site who have a Google toolbar can vote on the PageRank?

  87. On a more philosophical note, in On Liberty Mill drew a distinction between what we should as individuals do our best to persuade a person not to do and what a government should prevent a person from doing. Mill assigned social and commercial ostracism by private actors to the first category but not the second.

    I think one of the major differences that is between liberals and libertarians that is often overlooked compared to the spilt on social welfare is that libertarians believe there are more issues that should be approached in this way.

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  88. I am not sure whether if Google PageRank is as relevant today as it was back then related to where you rank. Especially if you pay attention to the PageRank toolbar, you can be misled about how well a site can perform.

  89. How can I tell if the PageRank value for my site has been changed? Sometimes I notice a change in the way my site ranks, but I do not see a change in the PR value per the Google toolbar.

  90. I have only just begun learning about tags and
    keywords. Most of my articles are not referenced this way. But, I do make sure my content is pertinent and a hopeful service to the web community and its readers.

    Today, my page views went up by 25% in one morning – I’m thrilled.

  91. Great article although i doubt those that are obsessed with PR will ever let it go. More effort should be on good SEO content and good anchor text links (if your goal is high idnexing). PR and high Alexa rank may be more relevant to sites that sell advertising space but any savvy advertizer will ask you for your demographic stats etc..

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  93. This is not a knock at your article, because it is very good. I just think it is really funny how a lot of sites will make a whole blog post about how their page rank improved and then at the same time say it is irrelevant when that same page rank falls. prostat It boggles the mind. My opinion and it is only an opinion is if page rank does not matter them why is the whole blogosphere checking their page rank to see where they stand?

  94. we had PR4 for over 3 years and suddenly today they reduced it to PR3? so what could be teh reason? If we exchange lik with PR3 SItes will it bring our PR down?

  95. PageRank is not an indicator of Google traffic or Google Rankings. I really dont believe in this google still somehow pulls high pr domains at top

  96. PageRank is not an indicator of Google traffic or Google Rankings. I really dont believe in this google still somehow pulls high pr domains at top

  97. we had PR4 for over 3 years and al of a sudden today they bargain it to PR3? so what could be teh reason? If we barter lik with PR3 SItes will it accompany our PR down? We accept to amusement the blog as we administer a aggregation charge to accept harder plan on PageRank is not an indicator of Google cartage or Google Rankings. I absolutely dont accept in this google still somehow pulls top pr domains at top

  98. Nice Topic!!

    High Google PR is good to increase traffic on website and many websites lost PR in June, 2009.

    Improve quality backlinks to get high PR.

    Cheers :)

  99. I completely agree with that, people make very basic mistakes which can hurt sites before they even think about ranking.and for a site ranking matters

  100. We had PR4 for over 3 years and al of a abrupt today they arrangement it to PR3? so what could be teh reason? If we bargain lik with PR3 SItes will it accompany our PR down? We acquire to action the blog as we administrate a accession allegation to acquire harder plan on PageRank is not an indicator of Google cartage or Google Rankings. I actually dont acquire in this google still somehow pulls top pr domains at top

  101. Search Engine Journal is now a PageRank 4 or a PageRank 6, depending on what datacenter your toolbar is working off of. We were PageRank 7 for several years and have not, in my opinion, done much to offset this PageRank.

  102. Nobody knows when google do this.
    The shortes time was 27 Days the longest nearle 180 Days.
    Anyway PR is not that important than a god Content in your site.

  103. Yes, of course.
    Google is not the Internet, but is all powerful.
    Page Rank algorithm is the only way by which other search engines may compete google.
    The worthable page rank idea may lead other search engines to compete with google.

  104. i have learned, now for sure, that excluding a basic search, google sux. they make microsoft and apple seem honest. biased searches next?thats just 1984 where kids are doing homeowrk using pages of incorrect information, served to them as fact by a corrupt organisation. if im left and all i get to see is left propaganda im gonna turn much more left – can peopel not make decisions anymore, must they be spoon fed everything (or is it just the american disease spreading).

  105. Yes, of course.
    Google is not the Internet, but is all powerful.
    Page Rank algorithm is the only way by which other search engines may compete google.
    The worthable page rank idea may lead other search engines to compete with google.

  106. Hi, I like your analysis and opinion. I have read many of though about page rank. Here I found interesting information about it. Thank you very much

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