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	<title>Comments on: Information Architecture &#8211; Rocket Science&#160;Simplified</title>
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		<title>By: alanbleiweiss</title>
		<link>http://www.searchenginejournal.com/information-architecture-rocket-science-simplified/22503/comment-page-1/#comment-1276448</link>
		<dc:creator>alanbleiweiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=22503#comment-1276448</guid>
		<description>Matthieu, &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The question of what alternatives to use for navigation that would otherwise &quot;crowd&quot; or &quot;confuse&quot; things can only be answered on a case by case basis.  For example - are the navigation elements you need to make available, or are they elements you &quot;think&quot; you need to make available?  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If, for example, we&#039;re talking about links to various filters in a site section, or a different sorting structure, and you need to eliminate them to reduce duplicate content conflicts, then whatever method you use needs to be one that helps to most likely ensure the search engines don&#039;t make use of them.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;While Javascript used to be a sound method, at SMX Advanced this past month, Matt Cutts specifically stated that Google is &quot;getting better&quot; at reading links in Javascript.  Whether they can do so well enough that this is no longer a considered method, I don&#039;t know.  Flash used to be a complete block to all things Google, and I believe it still is.  Yet since last year, Google and Adobe have partnered in an effort for Google to be able to tap text within Flash files.   So for the moment, Flash navigation MAY be a safe option, since links are actionscript.  AJAX may, in fact, be the best option.  Yet since Google is continually marching down the path of discovery methods, you may actually need to experiment.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If it turns out that you only &quot;think&quot; you need to keep that portion of your navigation, a more detached review may determine that you can do away with it.  Again, though, with proper experimentation and testing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthieu, </p>
<p>The question of what alternatives to use for navigation that would otherwise &#8220;crowd&#8221; or &#8220;confuse&#8221; things can only be answered on a case by case basis.  For example &#8211; are the navigation elements you need to make available, or are they elements you &#8220;think&#8221; you need to make available?  </p>
<p>If, for example, we&#39;re talking about links to various filters in a site section, or a different sorting structure, and you need to eliminate them to reduce duplicate content conflicts, then whatever method you use needs to be one that helps to most likely ensure the search engines don&#39;t make use of them.  </p>
<p>While Javascript used to be a sound method, at SMX Advanced this past month, Matt Cutts specifically stated that Google is &#8220;getting better&#8221; at reading links in Javascript.  Whether they can do so well enough that this is no longer a considered method, I don&#39;t know.  Flash used to be a complete block to all things Google, and I believe it still is.  Yet since last year, Google and Adobe have partnered in an effort for Google to be able to tap text within Flash files.   So for the moment, Flash navigation MAY be a safe option, since links are actionscript.  AJAX may, in fact, be the best option.  Yet since Google is continually marching down the path of discovery methods, you may actually need to experiment.  </p>
<p>If it turns out that you only &#8220;think&#8221; you need to keep that portion of your navigation, a more detached review may determine that you can do away with it.  Again, though, with proper experimentation and testing.</p>
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		<title>By: alanbleiweiss</title>
		<link>http://www.searchenginejournal.com/information-architecture-rocket-science-simplified/22503/comment-page-1/#comment-1276447</link>
		<dc:creator>alanbleiweiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=22503#comment-1276447</guid>
		<description>Shari,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I appreciate your comment.  As I stated in the opening of the article, I, personally, do not profess to be an information architecture specialist.  As such, I may be way off in my understanding. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yet I do still believe that site navigation is one aspect of a much broader information architecture practice, just like where you place your doors and windows in a home is part of the overall architectural plan of a building.  The location, size, and number of those doors and windows determines the flow of traffic (humans, pets, air, light) in that building just as the location, frequency, and number of links determines the flow of traffic and secondarily, search ranking value, on your web site.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I may be high as a kite in my thinking.  However some of the most well respected IA professionals in the world agree with my thinking.  Louis Rosenfeld, whom i reference in my &quot;for more information&quot; section above is just one of those people.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I also would like to refer to Princeton University&#039;s Guide To Creating Information Architecture and Content &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.princeton.edu/communications/services/docs/IAguide2.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.princeton.edu/communications/service...&lt;/a&gt; page 8 &quot;What is information architecture&quot; - &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Information architecture (IA) refers to the structure or organization of your website.&lt;br&gt;It describes the ways in which the different pages of your site relate to one another&lt;br&gt;and ensures information is organized in a consistent and predictable way on each&lt;br&gt;page. It involves steps such as:&lt;br&gt;• assessing existing and needed content,&lt;br&gt;• organizing the pages,&lt;br&gt;• providing clues to help use the site efficiently, and&lt;br&gt;• developing navigational structure.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And finally, I refer to the Information Architecture glossary, as created by Kat Hagedorn of Argus Associates, and as referenced at the Information Architecture Institute &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.iainstitute.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.iainstitute.org&lt;/a&gt;, in the &quot;Introduction to Information Architecture&quot; section of their library.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;From Kat&#039;s glossary:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Browsing. See also: contextual browsing, hierarchical browsing,&lt;br&gt;navigating, searching, supplemental browsing. The process of users&lt;br&gt;following paths through a site that results in the retrieval of specific content&lt;br&gt;objects. The three main types of browsing are hierarchical (accessing the&lt;br&gt;primary path through the site), supplemental (accessing adjunct views of the&lt;br&gt;site) and contextual (access to related content objects in the site). Users who&lt;br&gt;browse may have less definite ideas of their information needs than those who&lt;br&gt;search.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Navigating. See also: browsing, searching. The process of users interacting&lt;br&gt;with a site to effectively fulfill their information needs. Users navigate sites by&lt;br&gt;searching and browsing for content objects.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Navigational elements. See also: contextual browsing, hierarchical&lt;br&gt;browsing, searching, supplemental browsing. The page-level pieces of a&lt;br&gt;site interface. The global navigational element is consistent across a site; it&lt;br&gt;allows users to browse hierarchically among content areas, and access search and supplemental browsing tools. Local navigational elements change between&lt;br&gt;content areas; they allow users to browse hierarchically within a content area.&lt;br&gt;Contextual navigational elements allow users to browse contextually.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If these references are incorrect, I apologize for including them here, as they are among the many resources I highly rely upon in my work. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Alan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shari,</p>
<p>I appreciate your comment.  As I stated in the opening of the article, I, personally, do not profess to be an information architecture specialist.  As such, I may be way off in my understanding. </p>
<p>Yet I do still believe that site navigation is one aspect of a much broader information architecture practice, just like where you place your doors and windows in a home is part of the overall architectural plan of a building.  The location, size, and number of those doors and windows determines the flow of traffic (humans, pets, air, light) in that building just as the location, frequency, and number of links determines the flow of traffic and secondarily, search ranking value, on your web site.  </p>
<p>I may be high as a kite in my thinking.  However some of the most well respected IA professionals in the world agree with my thinking.  Louis Rosenfeld, whom i reference in my &#8220;for more information&#8221; section above is just one of those people.  </p>
<p>I also would like to refer to Princeton University&#39;s Guide To Creating Information Architecture and Content <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/communications/services/docs/IAguide2.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.princeton.edu/communications/service&#8230;</a> page 8 &#8220;What is information architecture&#8221; &#8211; </p>
<p>Information architecture (IA) refers to the structure or organization of your website.<br />It describes the ways in which the different pages of your site relate to one another<br />and ensures information is organized in a consistent and predictable way on each<br />page. It involves steps such as:<br />• assessing existing and needed content,<br />• organizing the pages,<br />• providing clues to help use the site efficiently, and<br />• developing navigational structure.</p>
<p>And finally, I refer to the Information Architecture glossary, as created by Kat Hagedorn of Argus Associates, and as referenced at the Information Architecture Institute <a href="http://www.iainstitute.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.iainstitute.org</a>, in the &#8220;Introduction to Information Architecture&#8221; section of their library.  </p>
<p>From Kat&#39;s glossary:</p>
<p>Browsing. See also: contextual browsing, hierarchical browsing,<br />navigating, searching, supplemental browsing. The process of users<br />following paths through a site that results in the retrieval of specific content<br />objects. The three main types of browsing are hierarchical (accessing the<br />primary path through the site), supplemental (accessing adjunct views of the<br />site) and contextual (access to related content objects in the site). Users who<br />browse may have less definite ideas of their information needs than those who<br />search.</p>
<p>Navigating. See also: browsing, searching. The process of users interacting<br />with a site to effectively fulfill their information needs. Users navigate sites by<br />searching and browsing for content objects.</p>
<p>Navigational elements. See also: contextual browsing, hierarchical<br />browsing, searching, supplemental browsing. The page-level pieces of a<br />site interface. The global navigational element is consistent across a site; it<br />allows users to browse hierarchically among content areas, and access search and supplemental browsing tools. Local navigational elements change between<br />content areas; they allow users to browse hierarchically within a content area.<br />Contextual navigational elements allow users to browse contextually.</p>
<p>If these references are incorrect, I apologize for including them here, as they are among the many resources I highly rely upon in my work. </p>
<p>Alan</p>
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		<title>By: Sthurow</title>
		<link>http://www.searchenginejournal.com/information-architecture-rocket-science-simplified/22503/comment-page-1/#comment-1276152</link>
		<dc:creator>Sthurow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 23:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=22503#comment-1276152</guid>
		<description>Hi Alan-&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Shari Thurow here. Thank you for your kind words about my latest article.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I am going to go out on a limb here and say something you might not want to hear. I think you are confusing information architecture with navigation (system) design. They are not the same thing, but they are related. Information architecture eventually becomes navigation design.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I know the 2 items overlap a lot, but people want to visualize site navigation so badly that they jump right into navigation design and structure without thinking about mental models of users. I understand that being a visual person myself. And I have swallowed my pride many times to listen and learn from people who are far more knowledgeable about IA than I am.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;To be perfectly honest, the people to hire for information architecture services are probably not SEOs. I feel the same way about usability services. Kim, of course, is one of the few exceptions. Almost everything I read about IA and SEO is so full of errors ...even the ranked articles...that it&#039;s embarrassing. And we SEOs wonder why we continue to have a bad reputation.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Information architecture and navigation structure/design are not the same thing. Something to remember...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Alan-</p>
<p>Shari Thurow here. Thank you for your kind words about my latest article.</p>
<p>I am going to go out on a limb here and say something you might not want to hear. I think you are confusing information architecture with navigation (system) design. They are not the same thing, but they are related. Information architecture eventually becomes navigation design.</p>
<p>I know the 2 items overlap a lot, but people want to visualize site navigation so badly that they jump right into navigation design and structure without thinking about mental models of users. I understand that being a visual person myself. And I have swallowed my pride many times to listen and learn from people who are far more knowledgeable about IA than I am.</p>
<p>To be perfectly honest, the people to hire for information architecture services are probably not SEOs. I feel the same way about usability services. Kim, of course, is one of the few exceptions. Almost everything I read about IA and SEO is so full of errors &#8230;even the ranked articles&#8230;that it&#39;s embarrassing. And we SEOs wonder why we continue to have a bad reputation.</p>
<p>Information architecture and navigation structure/design are not the same thing. Something to remember&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Matthieu Cocteau</title>
		<link>http://www.searchenginejournal.com/information-architecture-rocket-science-simplified/22503/comment-page-1/#comment-1276073</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthieu Cocteau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=22503#comment-1276073</guid>
		<description>hi and sorry for my english,&lt;br&gt;it&#039;s ok and well explained thanks ! But what shall we do with such a structure ?&lt;br&gt;Use Ajax ?&lt;br&gt;Matthieu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi and sorry for my english,<br />it&#39;s ok and well explained thanks ! But what shall we do with such a structure ?<br />Use Ajax ?<br />Matthieu</p>
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		<title>By: alanbleiweiss</title>
		<link>http://www.searchenginejournal.com/information-architecture-rocket-science-simplified/22503/comment-page-1/#comment-1275998</link>
		<dc:creator>alanbleiweiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 03:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=22503#comment-1275998</guid>
		<description>Haicheng,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It can be quite daunting to determine the best navigation for a site.  The good news is we can always revisit and make changes as we evolve the site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haicheng,</p>
<p>It can be quite daunting to determine the best navigation for a site.  The good news is we can always revisit and make changes as we evolve the site.</p>
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		<title>By: alanbleiweiss</title>
		<link>http://www.searchenginejournal.com/information-architecture-rocket-science-simplified/22503/comment-page-1/#comment-1275997</link>
		<dc:creator>alanbleiweiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 03:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=22503#comment-1275997</guid>
		<description>Chris, &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Right - just because you CAN link to every page everywhere, doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s the best approach!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, </p>
<p>Right &#8211; just because you CAN link to every page everywhere, doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s the best approach!</p>
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		<title>By: Chris McGiffen</title>
		<link>http://www.searchenginejournal.com/information-architecture-rocket-science-simplified/22503/comment-page-1/#comment-1275929</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris McGiffen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 18:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=22503#comment-1275929</guid>
		<description>Good article Alan. Many people seem to take the view that you have to link to as much of the site as quickly as possible to improve crawl coverage, but as you say it is still perfectly reasonable to take a more structured - and focused - approach and still get to any page within 3 or 4 links.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article Alan. Many people seem to take the view that you have to link to as much of the site as quickly as possible to improve crawl coverage, but as you say it is still perfectly reasonable to take a more structured &#8211; and focused &#8211; approach and still get to any page within 3 or 4 links.</p>
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		<title>By: Haicheng</title>
		<link>http://www.searchenginejournal.com/information-architecture-rocket-science-simplified/22503/comment-page-1/#comment-1275894</link>
		<dc:creator>Haicheng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=22503#comment-1275894</guid>
		<description>We offer so many products to a vast array of customers in only a few, specific locations. So in an effort to satisfy everyone our site&#039;s navigation and content came out TOO broad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We offer so many products to a vast array of customers in only a few, specific locations. So in an effort to satisfy everyone our site&#39;s navigation and content came out TOO broad</p>
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		<title>By: alanbleiweiss</title>
		<link>http://www.searchenginejournal.com/information-architecture-rocket-science-simplified/22503/comment-page-1/#comment-1275788</link>
		<dc:creator>alanbleiweiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=22503#comment-1275788</guid>
		<description>Well there are definitely a lot of people within our industry who soak up highly complex and technical knowledge.  Let&#039;s call this the &quot;scientific approach&quot; group.  Then there&#039;s the &quot;marketing medium&quot; group.  And the &quot;I just want to be found in Google&quot; group.  Surely there&#039;s a significant number of people in all three of these who salivate over her method of communicating.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;However, while there may be more people that fit that bill, there are still a significant number of people where the scientific path doesn&#039;t ignite the passion for this work as much, or at all. Which generally speaking, means for them (I/we), it&#039;s more visual / intuitive.   &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Then again, it may also be a case where highly tech preferring people are more vocal in their responses than visual/intuitive types who tend to be less likely to speak up afterward.  :-) &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just my opinion...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well there are definitely a lot of people within our industry who soak up highly complex and technical knowledge.  Let&#39;s call this the &#8220;scientific approach&#8221; group.  Then there&#39;s the &#8220;marketing medium&#8221; group.  And the &#8220;I just want to be found in Google&#8221; group.  Surely there&#39;s a significant number of people in all three of these who salivate over her method of communicating.  </p>
<p>However, while there may be more people that fit that bill, there are still a significant number of people where the scientific path doesn&#39;t ignite the passion for this work as much, or at all. Which generally speaking, means for them (I/we), it&#39;s more visual / intuitive.   </p>
<p>Then again, it may also be a case where highly tech preferring people are more vocal in their responses than visual/intuitive types who tend to be less likely to speak up afterward.  :-) </p>
<p>Just my opinion&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Krause Berg</title>
		<link>http://www.searchenginejournal.com/information-architecture-rocket-science-simplified/22503/comment-page-1/#comment-1275785</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Krause Berg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=22503#comment-1275785</guid>
		<description>What I find curious is that every time Shari Thurow gives a talk at a conference or writes an article for SEL, she always approaches IA/SEO/UX from an academic perspective.  I jokingly call her &quot;Professor&quot;.  Her articles outrank all of us who write for the SEL &quot;Just Behave&quot; column on this topic.  She scores at the top of every audience survey.  Where I use trees and house construction for IA analogies, she gets to the nitty gritty with tech terms and she far exceeds me in reader/audience reaction.  Sooooo, how come?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find curious is that every time Shari Thurow gives a talk at a conference or writes an article for SEL, she always approaches IA/SEO/UX from an academic perspective.  I jokingly call her &#8220;Professor&#8221;.  Her articles outrank all of us who write for the SEL &#8220;Just Behave&#8221; column on this topic.  She scores at the top of every audience survey.  Where I use trees and house construction for IA analogies, she gets to the nitty gritty with tech terms and she far exceeds me in reader/audience reaction.  Sooooo, how come?</p>
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